The President of Pine Financial Group, Kevin Amolsch

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Elite Agent Investors where we talk about next level tools, tech and tactics used by the top 1% real estate professionals. I'm your host Pete Thorpe. You can find me online@petethorpe IO. We are trying to buy the dot com but somebody is holding it hostage. We'll see how that goes. We bring on active real estate professionals including agents, brokers and investors to share their most advanced marketing tactics. Today's episode is sponsored by Real Fuel. Powered by big data, Real Fuel analyzes thousands of data points to surface leads that are likely to sell in your chosen market. They boast of 27071 increase in seller response rate when marketing to one of their AI scored leads versus a general list you buy from Joe Schmo. Today we have got Kevin Amosh from Denver, Colorado. Hopefully I said the name right. We'll figure that out. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Very good, Pete. Wow. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Kevin is the president of Pine Financial Group. He has been lending to investors for over 18 years now. So he's been in the business for more than a hot minute, knows what he's talking about. So Kevin, welcome to Elite Agent Investors. [00:01:02] Speaker B: I'm excited to be here man and see what we can do to help the audience. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, we, we obviously have a lot of investors in the audience. A lot of great loan products that are out there, especially in the investing space. A lot of folks are trying to figure out how to use hard money loans or cash, which, you know, cash obviously if you got it is great hard money loans but a lot of guys end up having to go with. But I think having an actual company that does loans for investors is definitely a better way to go. So what would you say you're seeing? Investors are kind of benefiting from most in today's market with the people that you work with. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah. As far as the lending side goes, what I can tell you is over the last, say three or four years you've seen a real pullback from the banks wanting to lend to real estate investors and more specifically to fix and flip investors. It's, there's a higher risk profile when it's not your house that you're living in. Right. If you had, if you're going to default on your primary home or your, your investment property, it's going to be the investment property. So there's, the risk profile is higher. And then when Silicon Valley bank went down a couple of years ago, it really spooked their peers. So then all banks sort of took a pretty big step back from that type of lending, especially the short term stuff. So it created some tremendous opportunities for private passive investors or private money lenders like myself. We're just basically filling a gap. So we could talk more about the conventional versus bank financing for investors and then go all the way to the other side to private capital or hard money lenders. But we are seeing more and more savvy real estate investors go to the hard money. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think a lot of that too is the hard money guys have been around the block a bit and they, they can tell a deal, they can see a deal and know if it's going to work. They can kind of underwrite that market. They, they know, and a lot of them have been working with people for quite a while too. So they know that, hey, this guy's got a crew. They know what they're doing. This is not their first dance. They didn't just see a flipping show on HGTV and decided to jump in. [00:02:59] Speaker B: So, yeah, we, we, you're right, we're experts. Right. Hard money lenders are typical. Typically they're real estate investors first and then they become hard money lenders later. So they've been, they've been where you are. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:09] Speaker B: They know what it takes to be successful and the good ones will tell you when you're not going to be successful. That's sort of what separates a good hard money lender from banks. [00:03:17] Speaker A: Well, you don't want to have your capital tied up and deal with all that stuff and potential. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:21] Speaker A: You know, you're likely not going to lose much if you do lose some. But it's still, it's a hassle and you got to deal with it. And there's all the additional costs to go with it. You want the deals to go smooth and get everything kind of done, dusted and through. I've got a couple that are working right now. You might have heard a ping coming earlier, and it was one of our investors who was asking about how often do we see roof certs needed hard to get a roof cert in our market. People just don't do it. What they'll do is they'll come out now and say, oh yeah, the roof's not leaking currently. Should be okay for a year. But that's what the cert is. It's nothing more than that. And some people are just begging for it, which, you know, it's not something that really gets done. A lot of our guys also are learning the hard way about the FHA rules for flips. So, you know, you shouldn't really take a contract before your 91st day. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Yep. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Can't increase the value by more than it was 100% over 180 days. So having to get second appraisals done and it's causing, you know, issues here and there for last minute things. I've got a couple railings I have to get put up on a flip that's supposed to close on Friday. We're not closing Friday. We're going to be closing sometime next week. It's going to close. It's just an annoyance that came up at the 11th hour. The second appraiser said, oh, hey, you've got some stairs here that are higher than 18 inches. You need railings all around it. So whoever decided to pull out the FHA rule book, decided to follow it to the T that day. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting the, the financing on the exit is, is vital for real estate investor to understand that. Right. So some of the things that you're talking about are, are super important. But there's even some banks and you might see this if we have more foreclosures coming. But some banks put deed restrictions so if they're going to sell the property to a fix and flipper, they're going to restrict you from transferring that out of your name for a certain amount of time. So as we progress through the, the market and the economy and I'm not projecting a foreclosure boom, that's not what I'm saying here. But if you start seeing more foreclosures, these are the types of things you should be looking out for and your hard money lender knows that. Right. So they will help keep you safe. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Now that's which is definitely being aware of the market and those things that are coming up are definitely important to know. Now, I don't know if I'm gonna be spreading rumors here or not, but I swear earlier today I read something and it may have been a clickbait post. I think I was busy doing a few other things, but they said that Zillow is downgraded 275. Like every major city. Zillow's put a downgrade on saying that they don't. I think prices are going to go down. I don't know that that's possible. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I would, I would certainly challenge that. I don't know how that would be possible when we're in a, that we're in a crisis. Inventory crisis. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:54] Speaker B: You know, according to core logic, we need four and a half million more homes just to get to a neutral market. So how, how would that severe Lack of inventory create a down. [00:06:04] Speaker A: That's. I'm thinking it's the, it has to be the luxury pricing not going as often and maybe it's going to give an overall downturn in pricing. Meaning the, the median might come down a little bit. But I think everybody in that affordable housing is. Which is where most of your flippers are staying in that like 300 ish. Depending on what market you're in, Denver might be like five or six. Here in Maryland, 300K and under. That house is gone in 30 seconds. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:06:27] Speaker A: So and I think that's the case for most of the country where that whatever the median price is for your market, if we're talking Miami, sure, it's super high. If you're downtown Denver, yes, it's higher. But generally speaking, whatever considered affordable housing in your market is off the market as soon as it comes on right now. [00:06:42] Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. And that's pretty standard across the country and that is exactly what we're talking about here. The fix and flippers aren't doing three or four million dollars houses right now. Some spec. There's some spec development at that price point. But a little fix and flipper. You're doing a starter home in most cases. [00:06:56] Speaker A: I just, I just came back from a project. Yes. Two days ago up in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and that builder has 10,000 tow houses and apartments that they're working on right now. 10,000 units. They're just, that's their, they're, they're just. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Somewhere in the process. That's like Blackstone type numbers. Like that's, that's crazy. [00:07:15] Speaker A: They've gotten, it's Burkentine builders. They've gotten a huge, just a huge push and they, what they were doing was building townhouse units that would buy up an area, but build townhouses, sell them. Those were the starter homes and then they were, you know, relatively nearby. They had the single family developments. So they had a pretty steady pipeline of people coming in, buying, upgrading. [00:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Five years ago. About five years ago though, they opened up a development right behind my office and I went to them and said, hey, I'll, I can be your, you can bring your show model place into my office here. I got space. You can literally walk between the two. And they're like, oh no, no, we're not, we're not selling these. I was like, what do you mean? Like oh, we're renting. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Build to rent. Yep. [00:07:58] Speaker A: And so all of their pro. Almost all of their projects as of late have been built to rent because the cash flow was so good for them. So. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's going to get better. [00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Because rents, rents have not kept up with home values over the last since COVID Yeah. So rents, rents are now starting to catch up. And the values, what we're seeing is values have been staying pretty stable and stagnant because the interest rates have held that down but the rental rates haven't. There's nothing restricting those from going up. So we are seeing those go up. So build a rent model. That's why it's so popular right now. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Yep, it's, it's solid work. My brother in law is down by annapolis, he's paying 3,000amonth in rent. I'm like, dude, we got, let's go buy a house. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah, you can buy at that point. [00:08:40] Speaker A: You're killing me. He's like, with the rate's high, I'm like, the rate's high but you're paying 3k a month of rent. Let's go get you a house. [00:08:48] Speaker B: And the rates, it's not high. I know this is something the listeners should understand. Like these are normal, this is a normal environment we're in right now. Yes, outside of the craziness from the White House, right outside of that. But the interest rate and housing environment. [00:09:02] Speaker A: This is normal and everyone's spoiled with two and a half, three and a half percent interest rates. Even four, five and a half to six I think is where we're going to eventually settle here in the next year and just sort of, maybe it's a little higher than that. But I think we're going to be in that pocket for a while and I think that'll be comfortable, it'll become normalized. We can kind of get on with our lives with buying. [00:09:23] Speaker B: I, I, I, I think you might be right. And the, some of the experts don't agree. They're like Fannie Mae, Wells Fargo and the national association of Home Builders all put out a, like a graph, you can just Google this, it's online of their projections over the next six quarters or so. None of them are over six and a half. So they're all floating in the mid sixes. And I'm Talking about the 30 year fixed rate loan rate here. So yeah, I think we could get under six. But a lot of the experts don't agree. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Well and remember this for the listeners too, when you hear about the rate drop and a rate drops coming and then it does come, it's already been priced in. So there's not some magic number that happens overnight where all of A sudden the rate goes to five and a half. By the time the actual rate drop happens, all the banks everybody already knew was coming, they already baked that number in. And whatever the rate is now is pretty much where it's, it's going to be. [00:10:16] Speaker B: You're 100. Right. And I'll go and step further. If you look through history and even the very last rate drop that you're talking about, mortgage rates went up. [00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker B: So just because you hear in the news that rates came down, that doesn't mean that mortgage rates come down. The Fed doesn't set that, the market sets that. [00:10:31] Speaker A: True. Forgot about that. So we have the professionals on. So you have. So across Plan Financial Group you guys have a lot of different products that you do obviously for investors and you probably maybe not just investors, but one of the ones that I see and I see more investors using especially it might be a little bit more for some of the first time people to get access to capital, but they use a 401k loan and are doing it in self directed IRAs. So how does that work for anybody that you guys are working with? [00:11:00] Speaker B: Oh wow. Pete, this could, we could do a whole like a whole like seminar on what your question right there. Because it's, it's sort of broad. There's lots of ways that you could get capital. So let me just talk about pine for a second and then I'll try to get back to your question on the retirement accounts. So we'd work with investors only. We do not do any owner occupied loans. And you're going to find that's pretty standard across a hard money lending industry. I mean it's not some of them will do owner occupied but it's sort of rare. And the reason for that is as soon as you start doing owner occupied loans, you fall into what we call a consumer loan bucket. And now we have TILLA and RESPA and we have federal regulations and we have usury and we have all of these things. And then if you look back at Covid when there was a lot of turmoil, you had lenders that couldn't, you know, accelerate loans. They were, people were just choosing not to pay their loans even if they could afford it and the lender couldn't do anything about it. That was protecting consumers. Right. That's called the forbearance or the moratoriums that were in place. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Sure. [00:11:58] Speaker B: On the, on the commercial side when we're loaning to fix and flippers or non owner occupied, we don't have any of that. So it's a lot safer for hard money lenders to play in that sandbox. So you're going to see most hard money lenders work exclusively with real estate investors. And look, that's our specialty. So we really decided to niche down. And we only have a couple of loan products we help fix and Flipper. So 80% of our business is the standard little fix and flip that you would see on TV. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:25] Speaker B: The other 20 might be some new construction, some spec, like spec buildings and some commercial repositioning. So if there's like a small apartment building that's mostly vacant, banks won't take it. Right. Because banks loan on cash flow. [00:12:38] Speaker A: They want the cash flow and they want the occupancy to be high. [00:12:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. They need the cash flow to pay the loan. They don't look at what the exit strategy might be down the road. We look at what are you doing, how are you adding value, what's the stabilized value? So that's why a hard money is so valuable to investors. Great tool in the, in the investor toolkit they say. But yeah. So we're about 80, 20. Now back to your, your question on the 401k and IRA loans. So if, if you're, you can't borrow from your ira. Okay. There's a lot of restrictions with the IRS from you to you personally to benefit from your ira. So there's a definite separation between what your IRA could do and what you personally could do. So in a self directed IRA, it has to own loan, it could buy its own property, it could do anything that you could do personally, but it has to be on its own. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Yep. Okay. [00:13:29] Speaker B: The 401k, very different. You could actually literally borrow money from your 401k and personally invest that somewhere and benefit from that loan. So those are very different ways to look at it, but they are both ways. You could get capital to do a fix and flip. That help. I mean I know that's a lot of like 50,000. [00:13:48] Speaker A: I know there's a whole view there, but there's so many, so many different ways to do it out there. It's just the, the, it's when you're trying to help some of the people who are just getting in and they've got a chunk of money sitting in an IRA that's just not doing much. They could make a good chunk more either lending out on projects or whatnot. They start becoming lenders themselves. [00:14:08] Speaker B: That's right. [00:14:09] Speaker A: But they, that's the best way to do it. Got it. Got to know what, got to know what you're doing. And like you said too, with these like self driving ira, it's got to be very specific situations. You got to have specific paperwork around it. So those are just some of the things around there. I just happened to see it on your site that you had something noted in there for one of them. So that was. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And we, so we could do. If your IRA is going to do business. So let's say your IRA wants to do a fix and flip. It's. We don't see this very often, but if you have some money in your IRA and you don't want to lend it out to somebody else, you want to actually go do a fix and flip and have your IRA make the profit, not you personally, you can do that and you could actually borrow money to do that. So a lender will loan the IRA money, not you personally and then you could do a fix and flip. It's a very niche product because there's. The IRS restricts personal guarantees so you can't personally guarantee a loan to the ira. So those are what we call non recourse loans. If you default on that loan, they can't come after you personally. Right. Their only recourse is the property itself. So non recourse IRA loans is a way to do fix and flips inside your ira. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Okay, nice. So for you guys, where do you lend? Are you just in Colorado? Do you have multiple markets across country? Where are you? [00:15:25] Speaker B: Good question. We have four primary markets. Denver. We were talking about skiing and snowboarding and all that. So I live in, in Denver and our, we're headquartered here and we do most of our loans in, in Denver and up and down the Front Range and in the Twin Cities in Minnesota. So Those are the two primary. We also do some stuff in D.C. so I know that's probably pretty close to you. [00:15:45] Speaker A: I was in D.C. yesterday. [00:15:47] Speaker B: We'll do two or three deals maybe a month out in Washington D.C. and then we do a little bit in Wisconsin. Those loan amounts are so small, but we're, it's right across, you know, from the Twin Cities. So we do go into Wisconsin. So those are the four markets we, we work in primarily on the commercial side because we go a little bit lower loan to value and we have some experience with those. We'll do that nationwide, but we just don't do a lot of it. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Okay, so down in the D.C. market, how did you end up in D.C. of all country? [00:16:19] Speaker B: So we were, we're cranking out loans. Right. We have some, some momentum and People know who we are in our local market. And there was this one guy that manages a hedge fund. He actually was from Hawaii, but he was in Denver and he was going to some of the networking events and everything. He was going to expand out here. And so he heard about Pine Financial and he heard about us. And so he started like asking us like, questions about how we're doing it and things like this. And he says, well, I have connections out in dc, I want to expand it to dc, but I don't have the systems or the knowledge or anything to actually operate a hard money lending company. So we ended up partnering up to expand into the D.C. market. So it was all him. Now. We ended up not working together for very long. He decided to, to just learn what he could from us and go do it himself. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Yep. [00:17:07] Speaker B: And so we, we expanded back in D.C. because we have the Meetup page, we have the Meetup groups. We, we know people out there. So that. I know it's kind of a long answer to your question, but it was. It's just relationships in the business. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Very much so that it will. Especially in D.C. too. Everyone's coming in from various parts of the country and there, there are so many. There's a lot of opportunities in terms of anything you could find down there you could fix and flip. So it doesn't surprise me that you might be there just because of the, you know, the potential that's in the area. [00:17:38] Speaker B: So it's a lot of aging inventory out there. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:41] Speaker B: And a lot of turnover. So you have aging inventory that needs to be cleaned up and then you have high turnover because of. It's so government heavy. Right. Every. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Every two years, somebody else potentially getting elected, the whole administration staff's gotta leave and other people come in. So all that is always happening. There's always that kind of turnover, especially even in the retail space down there. Um, just for. I know there's people that are out buying, they'll buy up like a block that's, you know, for sale as a commercial space. And then like you were talking about earlier, where if you're in the commercial space and you increase the, you know, the, the facade of the, of the place, now you get better tenants, your rents go up, and all of a sudden it's worth more because now your rents are higher and. But it wasn't filled because it looked like whatever before. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Exactly. Right. [00:18:27] Speaker A: So. [00:18:28] Speaker B: But they need a lot of that parking lots and facade and all of a sudden it's a brand new. Looks like a brand new building. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you, you put good lighting in, put in your parking lot. You take the front and clean the front up. There you go. You now you have a nice, you know, you, you could, you could look, make it look like Chipotle with that industrial interior and big glass windows and some outdoor seating and bam. You're the cool new spot. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:18:50] Speaker A: It's amazing. And it's not hard, that's not hard to do. You're not putting in tons of like cubicles and redoing everything. You're just blowing everything up to the know, to the studs and then painting it gray. [00:19:01] Speaker B: Yes. A lot of, a lot of fix and flippers move into the value add commercial like what you're talking about here, and they'll never go back. Right. It's just, it's just for some investors, not all, but some investors, they find it far easier to flip commercial buildings than, than residential stuff. [00:19:17] Speaker A: At the end of the day there too, it's, you strip it down to the studs and you got a big rectangle. What do you need on the inside? They tell you what they need and you do the bill about it and you have a ten year lease. Exactly. Yeah. Super easy. [00:19:29] Speaker B: You don't, you don't rehab the inside until you have a tenant tells you how to do it. Like what do they want? And then, and then you have the tenant, you have the cash flow and all of a sudden the value's higher. [00:19:38] Speaker A: I like, definitely like that one a lot. I guess. Let's see if we cover like one last thing. That's that I see here, off of your site, you've got, let's look at the flash cash loans. Yeah, okay, that's a good one for you. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you see that a little bit more on the east coast than we do out here. Yeah, but so a flash cash is like just a day or two day loan. Right. And so I'll walk you through how this works. If you're a real estate wholesaler, which basically means you're great at finding deals, but you don't want to actually do the work, you just want to send it to somebody else to let them do the rehab to fix and flip it, they make the lion's share of the profit, but you're able to mark up the deal a little bit. You find a great deal, you mark it up, you make your money, you go to the next one. So we, we have clients that are just doing like pretty high volume wholesaling because they just have marketing out, you Know, they're really good at finding deals. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yep. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Well, sometimes you have to actually close on the house and take ownership before you could resell it. There's different ways that you could wholesale a deal and there's ways to avoid the double close. What I'm talking about. [00:20:42] Speaker A: Sure. [00:20:42] Speaker B: In some cases you have to close on it and then resell it. So you have two closings in the same day or two closings maybe in a two day period. So we could help finance those types of deals. So it's just a way to do wholesale transactions without having all the cash. [00:20:59] Speaker A: And, and kind of the reason I brought that up was so I'm in. I'm in Maryland primarily, but I'm also here in Pennsylvania. So I have an office here in pa, like right over the border, six minutes from my house in Maryland. I have another office further down in Hunt Valley, Pennsylvania to begin the year made double closes. Illegal Wholesaling is technically illegal in Pennsylvania unless you have these crazy disclosures under the sun. There are apparently a couple ways that some folks are finding to kind of get around some of that stuff. But something like flash cash loans might be something for you guys to look into here in PA saying, hey, you guys can't do it that way anymore, but you could do the flash cash, actually close it and then, you know. Yeah, fund it again. [00:21:46] Speaker B: So what you're talking about is a dry close versus a wet double close. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. [00:21:50] Speaker B: So is it fully funded or are you using side B's loan side B's money to close both transactions? [00:21:56] Speaker A: Yeah, which is what they. They're not. Which is what is now illegal, allowed illegal, or however they, however they're trying to say it. I know there's a couple lawsuits that are going on about it because people are not. Not happy with it for, for a variety of reasons, but they think it's really. Actually the state is just trying to double end the money. State wants their 2% on both sides. [00:22:17] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:22:18] Speaker A: So like the states just look at that as a way to force people to pay more money into the state transaction fees. [00:22:24] Speaker B: You have closing fees out. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get the 2% from you getting it and then 24 hours later, I'm getting the 2% from you getting it. So this could be something to at least let them still actually do the deal. They'd have to make that extra 2% in there somewhere. But more often than not, they're making more than 2% anyway. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. On, on one side or the other. But something like this product could be filling a need that I know they're going to need here in Pennsylvania. [00:22:51] Speaker B: Like now, you know, maybe a better way to do this. Can I. Can I go a little higher level with your, with your listener here? So here's how you do it without. With avoiding the double close or those extra fees that you're talking about. And we just. We just basically set up an LLC or a trust. You could do like a land trust. Either one works. Then you put the contract into the entity that you just structured. And then I'm selling the real estate. You sell the entity. Right. So now I'm transferring the beneficial ownership in the trust or the member units in the llc, I'm transferring that. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:23:27] Speaker B: My retail buyer or my fix and flip buyer. And then they go and close because the contract remembers with the entity and the seller. So they may step in as the owner of the entity and close on at one time. So that would. Okay, yeah, that eliminates it. [00:23:45] Speaker A: That's. That's brilliant. Because most of the time, as. As all you guys who are doing the fix and flips already know, you want to have separate LLCs in case you get sued for anything and you can't go after other holdings. So people open up LLCs all the time. I think we've done deals where it's been like Joe Schmo, you know, vii, because. Exactly. Yeah. You know, they're on our seventh or eighth instance of that entity because they've done seven flips and they just rotate back to the first one and they just keep cycling through. Yeah. Depending on how many have going on at any time. So that, That's a, that could be a very good solution for that. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great way for wholesalers to avoid the double close, and it's a great way to, to, to wholesale deals where they don't allow an assignable contract, because obviously if you can just assign your rights in the contract itself, that's the easiest way to do it. But a lot of lenders, especially foreclosure, like foreclosure properties like Wells Fargo, for an example, they don't allow assignable contracts. They specifically restrict assignability in the contract. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Gotcha. [00:24:46] Speaker B: But this, this is a way to get around that. And it's totally legal. You're allowed to sell an entity that you. Or your ownership rights in an entity. Right. So you're. Yeah, it's not like you're doing anything wrong. You're just doing it a little bit different. [00:24:59] Speaker A: I Like it a lot that alone. [00:25:04] Speaker B: I hope, I hope I added some value. [00:25:07] Speaker A: 100. So where, where can folks find you if they want to get in touch? I actually we, we have a couple of clients. Ours, the Kittle real estate team is a little bit north you in Fort Collins and they also run expert cash buyers buying, buying, fixing, flipping locally up by Fort Collins in a surrounding market just above you. So probably good idea to tell them to reach out to you. [00:25:30] Speaker B: We do business in Fort Collins for sure. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, definitely. [00:25:34] Speaker B: So, so people can get a hold of me. There's two, two things I want to say here. First of all, there's. We talked a little bit about the economy and the markets. I wrote a report on about the last recession that sort of resembles what we're going through. High inflation, high interest rates. That was back in 1990 and that impacted real estate values by about 14%. So that's the last recession that hit real estate values that were most similar to where we are now. So I would report comparing those two so we can kind of see what we're experiencing now. And also if you have, we talked about IRA money and if you have that sitting, if you don't want to do a fix and flip and you want to invest it in a project, one of the safest ways to do it, especially in this little scary economic time, is to be the lender on deals because the lenders get paid back first. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:18] Speaker B: That's the safest spot in the capital stack. But what I've seen Pete, is people go out and loan money to their friends or family or other investors and they don't really know what they're doing and then they end up losing. So I was, I get those phone calls all the time. So I was trying to protect people. And so I wrote a report on how to stay safe. If you're out there doing that on your own, okay, work with us or you can work on your own. I just don't want you to lose money. So both of those reports are found at the pine report.com so the pine report.com otherwise you can get more information. And it looks like the website you're looking at right now is @pinefinancial group.com that'd be a great way to reach out to us. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Awesome. We'll make sure we'll have those in there. I, I just pulled up the pine report.com myself. So I'm going to go through those and then we'll put, we'll put those links out there for listeners as well. Fantastic. So guys, if you've got, if you're in a Colorado market or the other four that, that Kevin's mentioned, reach out to. Reach out to Kevin. You can find him at Pine. Where was I? Second ago. [00:27:19] Speaker B: Financial group. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Financial group, yeah. And for everybody else, go to the Pine Report.com to get the reports that Kevin was just talking about. Now, if you guys are out there, listeners, and you want to be on the show, go ahead and go to eliteagentinvestors.com and you can apply to come on to the show and we will see you on the next one. Have a great day, everybody. Thank you.